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Re: “Edward Bagley Sr. accused of forcing woman with mental illness to be his sex slave

to JJ in Midmo;

Not everyone who engages in sadomasochistic sex needs therapy. In general practice with consenting and rational adults it is actually the submissive partner who is getting their needs catered to carefully and in a controlled situation of their choosing. Sometimes, but not always, people who have been abused find that re-enacting a 'scene' with a different result and a loving partner is a comforting and cathartic, for example. Others just enjoy relinquishing power to a partner as a release from having to play a role as a proper man or woman on occasion. Sex is a natural endeavor and so long as no one is truly being harmed what people do in private is their business.

In any case, legislating morality would be at the heart of any proposed solution to 'banning' s&m sex. Do you want to live in a country where the government decides what is right and wrong for people to do in bed, behind closed doors?

Sadly for some, we live in a free society that can only make certain rules about what adult choose to see and do, and these rules get bent, broken and abused by less evolved persons. It means there will always be cases like this that test the boundaries of what is possible to prevent with statutes and legislation. A better system is when a community looks after its' own members...

Pornography is a tougher issue but it's been debated and studied extensively, and the system we have now is not likely to change much, there is too much money to be made by 'legitimate' businesses like hotels and cable television to challenge the status quo.

Your outrage is understandable but regrettably misinformed and not the majority opinion.

9 likes, 1 dislike
Posted by cop in ozarks on 09/15/2010 at 1:43 PM

Re: “Edward Bagley Sr. accused of forcing woman with mental illness to be his sex slave

Dee, an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth leaves the whole world toothless and blind. (Torture is always wrong, it demeans both parties.)

Man is the only animal that kills for sport, knows he is mortal, and performs cruel acts for kicks. It must be in our nature somewhere but we also have reason, compassion and intellect to rise above our base natures.

2 likes, 2 dislikes
Posted by You too on 09/14/2010 at 10:45 PM

Re: “Edward Bagley Sr. accused of forcing woman with mental illness to be his sex slave

Mike, your private masturbatory fantasy is not interesting or novel, and in the context of this forum is in extremely poor taste. You need to stop and think about what you are saying. Fantasy sadomasochistic sex is not what this case is about. It's about a woman who entrusted her care to someone who used and abused that trust starting possibly at an age when she was too young to consent or understand what she was agreeing to, and continuing for a long, long time until her whole life was warped beyond repair.

Yes, there are people who "play" at these sort of fantasy lives and do no harm. But this is not one of those couples. And your comments are not helpful. You are woefully ill informed and need to grow up.

7 likes, 3 dislikes
Posted by get serious on 09/14/2010 at 12:58 PM

Re: “Edward Bagley Sr. accused of forcing woman with mental illness to be his sex slave

The real crime here was very likely the stolen innocence of a 16 year old runaway, who was overly exposed to sex and very adult sexual matters at a tender and impressionable age by her foster parent or parents. But we don't know the whole story, yet. And sadly we probably never will. The things that happened before she turned 18 are going to be very very hard to prove in a court of law, now that she is 22, unless the prosecution has a friendly witness we don't know about yet. And if they do, it's going to be frustrating knowing that a witness stood by for so long before coming forward.

The other issue to examine is deciding if the survivor is/was capable of giving consent or not. The prosecution is signaling with an allegation of "diminished mental capacity" that she was not, and they clearly think they can prove it. But if she is "diminished," does that make her testimony suspect? Or even unadmissible?

If you read between the lines, the picture is somewhat clear - sad runaway overly sexualized at an early age by a self styled "master" who slowly gained and abused control over her, and who eventually was the victim of a scene gone bad and brought to an ER where someone questioned the nature of her injuries. What we don't know yet is how willing she is or is not in cooperating with the prosecution in making a case against her "master." I suspect that on some level she is not protecting him outright but she is also not interested in being fully cooperative in making a case against the kind of sex/subculture she identifies with, for political reasons - she very likely has friends in the bondage scene and identifies with aspects of the ideology regarding self actualization aspects, etc. Shades of stockholm syndrome... mixed with self-actualization pep talks. The feds are attacking her identity when they ask her to relive her experiences in the guise of criminalizing what for her in some regards, not all, mind you, but some, IN HER MIND AT THE TIME was consensual sex play. Is that why she is "mentally deficient" in the opinion of the prosecution? Or is she being accused of crimes herself and the prosecution is coercing her to help bring a case against the defendants? Or, who knows, maybe she has a very very low IQ and mental capacity of a ten year old and somehow was cruelly manipulated into every bit of this. Again my point is, we just don't know yet.

But the legal precendent, the history of trials involving CONSENSUAL sadomasochistic sex here typically demonize sadomasochistic sex partners on top and bottom. I hope it is not the case that she is the one who is being threatened with sodomy laws, in order to coerce sensational stories so charges can be made. That would be one type of abuse replaced by another.


Instead I hope the prosecution can intelligently and non sensationalistically present the case that the kinky stuff is mainly the lemon next to the pie,as it were and that this case is about abuse of a minor who was prevented from growing into an adult sytematically by her tormentor.

To me it is frustrating that the real crime, overly sexualizing a minor in foster care, can't be prosecuted directly. Instead, the trial is likely to center on a trip to california that happened when the survivor was 22. I don't want the story to end up as "Anyone of any age who consents to being spanked in the bedroom is incapable of the mental capacity to exercise his or her own free will." But that may be the only way these defendants can be found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

I'm happy to hear the woman is out of what was surely an abusive relationship - but again, the true abuse was what must have happened at the earliest age, when her childhood was stolen. The penalty for that should be on the books in place of issues of crossing state lines for video purposes. If the prosecution proves she was prevented from growing mentally past the point where she had a child's understanding of free will, then any behavior she took part in can be charged as though it was done to a minor, I am guessing. (not a lawyer)

From a distance, an interesting case with issues and sidelights on thorny ethical questions about free will, consent and outdated laws concerning the state's right to legislate sexual morality. Close up and personal, a sick, sad world where an ignorant abuser exploited a young girl who wanted love and attention.

3 likes, 1 dislike
Posted by Sixteen Once on 09/14/2010 at 9:23 AM

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