Army Spc. Jeremy Hall did two tours in Iraq, saw his share of fire and came back in one piece. Too bad he needs a bodyguard to keep his fellow soldiers from attacking him now that he's back in the States.
Hall's problems started in the middle of Thanksgiving dinner in 2006, during his second tour. One of the men at Hall's table asked that they pray together. The soldiers joined hands — except for Hall. Most didn't know he was an atheist until that moment.
"I joined as a religious person," says the 23-year-old Hall, who is now stationed at Fort Riley. "Then I met some other people with different ideas, and I actually read the Bible. It didn't make any sense to me, so I decided for myself. It really doesn't matter anyway. You're going to die and pay taxes either way."
Hall kept those opinions to himself at the dinner. He says he declined to pray as respectfully as he could. When word got around the tables that he wouldn't pray, he was confronted by a senior-ranking staff sergeant, who demanded to know why. Hall explained that he was an atheist — then explained what an atheist was when the sergeant didn't understand.
"He basically told me to get the hell out of there and that I couldn't eat with them," Hall says. "I just sat there quietly and finished it. A Mormon girl actually stood up for me and said they shouldn't do that, because it's not just me. They give Mormons shit, too."
In July 2007, Hall decided to find out how many soldiers agreed with him. He approached his Army chaplain for permission to hold a meeting of atheists, freethinkers and any other non-Christians. He got the chaplain's blessing and posted fliers for the meeting.
"There wasn't any support for anyone like me, so I just wanted to provide it. Strength in numbers," Hall says. "I wasn't asking for domination, just that we are here, and we are real, and you've got to deal with us."
Hall's fliers were ripped up or defaced. "'Fag, God loves you, you're going to hell,' all kinds of crazy shit," Hall says of the writing on the notices. But the nonbelievers still showed up. So did Maj. Freddy Welborn, Hall says.
The meeting didn't delve into deep questions. The few who attended didn't get much further than who they were and where they were from when Welborn stood up to confront the group. According to Hall, Welborn threatened to use the meeting as justification to keep Hall from re-enlisting, as well as potential action under the Uniform Code of Military Justice.
As far as Hall knows, Welborn never went through with his threats, and in November 2007, Hall left Iraq for a station at Fort Riley. Hall says the officers he served under in Iraq must have relayed the fact that he was an atheist to the base. "Everybody knew about me before I got there," he says.
On September 17, 2007, Hall filed a federal lawsuit in Kansas, alleging that his right to be free from government endorsement of religion under the First Amendment had been violated and that he'd faced retaliation for his views. The suit names Welborn and Defense Secretary Robert Gates as defendants.
Lawrence lawyer Bob Eye filed the suit and says he had been studying other cases of non-Christians being mistreated in the armed forces. Eye had been working with the nonprofit group Military Religious Freedom Foundation. "We'd been looking through all the complaints the MRFF had gotten and trying to determine whether any of them had a basis to succeed when Hall's case popped up," Eye says. "There was a disturbing similarity to some of these complaints about these Christian dominionists, not just in one unit or branch, but really any military installation you went to."
Eye says Christian dominionists believe that government institutions should be governed by biblical law. "Their feeling is, we're not in Iraq for geopolitical reasons — it's the clash of Islam and Christianity," Eye says. "They think the military should have a religious test that each member must adopt and pass for admittance. Clearly there are a lot of people who would probably support that, but fortunately we have constitutional ways to prohibit that. And what we're alleging here is that there's now a manifestation of government policy that is promoting religious belief, and that's dangerous territory."
In December 2007, Hall took photos of an Ann Coulter poster on display at Fort Riley that had what his lawsuit describes as an "anti-Islamic statement." Hall sent photos to the MRFF, which sent them to media outlets. When Fort Riley's command became aware of this, it issued a memo notifying everyone on base that Hall was engaged in a lawsuit.
After the memo went out, Hall says, platoon Sgt. Michael Van Hise told Hall that he was no longer up for a promotion he expected to get in February. Van Hise said that because Hall couldn't set aside his beliefs to pray with his troops, it would limit his ability to lead effectively. Later, another soldier told Hall that he'd be "eaten alive" by the president of the promotions board, Command Sgt. Maj. Kevin Nolan, according to his lawsuit.
Both Van Hise and Nolan are still at Fort Riley. The base's public affairs department tells The Pitch that neither Van Hise nor Nolan nor any higher-ups will comment because of the pending litigation. Welborn retired from the service in February and couldn't be reached for comment.
Hall claims that several officers argued with him about his beliefs and whether his atheism would keep him from being an effective leader. "There was all this bullshit. They ask me a question like, 'What if a soldier's suicidal and you have to pray with him?' I said I'd call a chaplain," Hall says. "Then they'd come back with, 'What if a chaplain's not available?' Come on, can you box me in any tighter? That's a question that you can't answer right."
Fort Riley command, worried that Hall was in danger of being attacked by one of the more fervent Christian soldiers, has sometimes assigned him a guard to accompany him on and off the base.
Hall's lawsuit doesn't ask for money. Eye says Hall's main goal is to prod the military to issue an order that forbids soldiers from discriminating or persecuting non-Christians. "You can't use someone's atheism or religious beliefs as a means to judge their performance. I don't for a moment anticipate the Christian dominionist faction is going to change their views because of that, but I would expect that the chain of command still means something."
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I feel for this soldier that his faith was lost due to
the dispicable acts of this government and our corrupt
administration that got these men into this mess in the
first place. I hope for his sake that he will find a way
to belive again in the fact that there is a Higher Power
and the situations we are currently in are not the belief
of our Supreme Maker but the total disregard we have for
another human life. What a shame that God always take
the brunt of our poor choices.
Kathy, Florida
I feel for this soldier that his faith was lost due to the dispicable acts of this government and our corrupt administration that got these men into this mess in the first place. I hope for his sake that he will find a way to belive again in the fact that there is a Higher Power and the situations we are currently in are not the belief of our Supreme Maker but the total disregard we have for another human life. What a shame that God always take the brunt of our poor choices. Kathy, Florida
As long as folks are pointing out Bible verses lets all take a close look at the very last book of the Bible and the words of Christ spoken there.
Christians are commanded to evangelize .. "to SHARE the GOOD NEWS" .. but there is a world of difference between "sharing" and "prosteletyzing". Revelations 22:11 says; "He who is unrighteous (unjust, wicked), let him be unrighteous still; and he who is filthy (vile, impure), let him be filthy still; and he who is righteous (just, upright, in right standing with God), let him do right still; and he who is holy, let him be holy still."
In short, tell the story of the Gospel and then let people make their own decisions to follow or now. Attempts to convert the wicked is in direct violation of Christ's word!
As long as folks are pointing out Bible verses lets all take a close look at the very last book of the Bible and the words of Christ spoken there. Christians are commanded to evangelize .. "to SHARE the GOOD NEWS" .. but there is a world of difference between "sharing" and "prosteletyzing". Revelations 22:11 says; "He who is unrighteous (unjust, wicked), let him be unrighteous still; and he who is filthy (vile, impure), let him be filthy still; and he who is righteous (just, upright, in right standing with God), let him do right still; and he who is holy, let him be holy still." In short, tell the story of the Gospel and then let people make their own decisions to follow or now. Attempts to convert the wicked is in direct violation of Christ's word!
Zoe #10:
From the Sermon on the Mount, Christ's words as written in Matthew 6:5-6 (KJV):
5. And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
6. But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
So when you pray, take care that it's between you and your Creator, not you and the rest of the world.
Christ exhorts his people to separate the Church and the State when questioned by the Pharisees as to whether paying tribute to Caesar was lawful, from Matthew 22:18-22:
18. But Jesus perceived their wickedness, and said, Why tempt ye me, ye hypocrites?
19. Shew me the tribute money. And they brought unto him a penny.
20. And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription?
21. They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.
22. When they had heard these words, they marvelled, and left him, and went their way.
Your own Savior has commanded his followers to separate Church and State, and maintain a private relationship with their Creator. None of Paul's exhortation's to evangelize supersede that. The Constitution says the same thing. How marvelous that both Christ and the Constitution endorse religion staying a private matter, and no business of the State!
I used to a christian all my life 59 years old until recently and found out a lot of things concerning Jesus Christ.
I don't think he ever existed let alone is the "savior" watch Zeitgeist on Youtube or Google and then go to
www.truthbeknown.com and learn some truth. Religions-all used to control people. Look at all the F***'n wars started by "christians". They are more dangerous than any other religion on the face of the planet. Look at the nut cases in the Porn House in DC. When did God ever stop "ANY WAR"?????? How many starving children has God feed today???? How many amputees ever had God regrow their limbs? I have not seen one GD piece of evidence God is anywhere even near Earth! Something did create all this but that dude or dudeit split when he created humans and saw what a F*** up he did! The military needs all the help it can get and get out of other countries and protect our borders because god sure as hell isn't. Why should it be any body's belief is, in or out of the military. The military didn't give a rats a** during Viet Nam-"Just get your a** up front and shoot,try and not to get yourself killed or us" I don't remember him saying in Gods name.He did use Gods name if you did get somebody killed or wounded.
John
Zoe #10: From the Sermon on the Mount, Christ's words as written in Matthew 6:5-6 (KJV): 5. And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. 6. But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly. So when you pray, take care that it's between you and your Creator, not you and the rest of the world. Christ exhorts his people to separate the Church and the State when questioned by the Pharisees as to whether paying tribute to Caesar was lawful, from Matthew 22:18-22: 18. But Jesus perceived their wickedness, and said, Why tempt ye me, ye hypocrites? 19. Shew me the tribute money. And they brought unto him a penny. 20. And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription? 21. They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's. 22. When they had heard these words, they marvelled, and left him, and went their way. Your own Savior has commanded his followers to separate Church and State, and maintain a private relationship with their Creator. None of Paul's exhortation's to evangelize supersede that. The Constitution says the same thing. How marvelous that both Christ and the Constitution endorse religion staying a private matter, and no business of the State!
I used to a christian all my life 59 years old until recently and found out a lot of things concerning Jesus Christ. I don't think he ever existed let alone is the "savior" watch Zeitgeist on Youtube or Google and then go to www.truthbeknown.com and learn some truth. Religions-all used to control people. Look at all the F***'n wars started by "christians". They are more dangerous than any other religion on the face of the planet. Look at the nut cases in the Porn House in DC. When did God ever stop "ANY WAR"?????? How many starving children has God feed today???? How many amputees ever had God regrow their limbs? I have not seen one GD piece of evidence God is anywhere even near Earth! Something did create all this but that dude or dudeit split when he created humans and saw what a F*** up he did! The military needs all the help it can get and get out of other countries and protect our borders because god sure as hell isn't. Why should it be any body's belief is, in or out of the military. The military didn't give a rats a** during Viet Nam-"Just get your a** up front and shoot,try and not to get yourself killed or us" I don't remember him saying in Gods name.He did use Gods name if you did get somebody killed or wounded. John
To quote another poster "Sometimes I wonder if Christians ever read the Bible. You know, the part about how talking about their faith in public is unChristian?" Ummmmmm......where exactly in the Bible does it say that? Maybe YOU should read the Bible because it mentions repeatedly that Christians should go out and share their faith with others. That is what Evangelism means.
I am sorry this man was persecuted but I would imagine his fellow soldiers might be a little hesitant to count on him to have their backs when he would not pray with them. Not a soldier myself, I can only imagine what the emotional and mental toll is on these Americans.
To quote another poster "Sometimes I wonder if Christians ever read the Bible. You know, the part about how talking about their faith in public is unChristian?" Ummmmmm......where exactly in the Bible does it say that? Maybe YOU should read the Bible because it mentions repeatedly that Christians should go out and share their faith with others. That is what Evangelism means. I am sorry this man was persecuted but I would imagine his fellow soldiers might be a little hesitant to count on him to have their backs when he would not pray with them. Not a soldier myself, I can only imagine what the emotional and mental toll is on these Americans.
This particular article makes me think that a large portion of the ASVAB and other military requisite tests should include a portion on the Constitution. Using that sort of ignorance in your fighting force just isn't safe for this country or anything it stands for.
I'm damn glad that this man is suing for the enforcement of the rights that he as a soldier is fighting for. The world could use more people like him. Hell, the world could use a few more atheists in general.
This particular article makes me think that a large portion of the ASVAB and other military requisite tests should include a portion on the Constitution. Using that sort of ignorance in your fighting force just isn't safe for this country or anything it stands for. I'm damn glad that this man is suing for the enforcement of the rights that he as a soldier is fighting for. The world could use more people like him. Hell, the world could use a few more atheists in general.
Sometimes I wonder if Christians ever read the Bible. You know, the part about how talking about their faith in public is unChristian?
Sometimes I wonder if Christians ever read the Bible. You know, the part about how talking about their faith in public is unChristian?
I feel for this kid. I am not saying that being an Atheist is right or wrong. Everyone has their own beliefs, no matter if they are Christian, Catholic, Nazarene, Mormon or even an Atheist. And besides he went into the service to fight on behalf of our country, as an American, regardless of religion.
I agree with Elizabeth religion and government issues need to be separate. We are there to fight or help people in other countries, depending on the country, not to fight amongst ourselves on issues that has nothing to do with why we are there. Like i said above he is over there as an American on behalf of the USA, not according to his religion.
GOD LOVES US ALL NO MATTER OF OUR RACE OR RELIGION. GOD FORGIVES!!!!
I served two tours in Iraq, one of them was at camp Sather. I was the only Neo-Pagan there, it was really hard to find any spot to hold my own rituals etc at. I was stared at, whispered about and confronted by a group of people. I told them what I was doing was in fact protected by our Nations law and if they did not like it they were welcome to go see my CO. I got lucky, they backed off that time. The next time I even had a Chaplin (Baptist) who went out of his way to preach at me. It took me going to the head Chaplin (a Priest) to get this guy to back off. Again I got lucky but I know of others who have not been so lucky as me. You would think that we were living in Saudi the way these �Christians�� go around acting. I for one applaud SPC . HALL for his valor in taking a stand when at his rank it is a hard thing to do. It�s been hard for me as a SSgt. At time but the more often non-Christians� take a stand for our freedoms, we make progress. Keep up the good work!
Jay
I feel for this kid. I am not saying that being an Atheist is right or wrong. Everyone has their own beliefs, no matter if they are Christian, Catholic, Nazarene, Mormon or even an Atheist. And besides he went into the service to fight on behalf of our country, as an American, regardless of religion. I agree with Elizabeth religion and government issues need to be separate. We are there to fight or help people in other countries, depending on the country, not to fight amongst ourselves on issues that has nothing to do with why we are there. Like i said above he is over there as an American on behalf of the USA, not according to his religion. GOD LOVES US ALL NO MATTER OF OUR RACE OR RELIGION. GOD FORGIVES!!!!
I served two tours in Iraq, one of them was at camp Sather. I was the only Neo-Pagan there, it was really hard to find any spot to hold my own rituals etc at. I was stared at, whispered about and confronted by a group of people. I told them what I was doing was in fact protected by our Nations law and if they did not like it they were welcome to go see my CO. I got lucky, they backed off that time. The next time I even had a Chaplin (Baptist) who went out of his way to preach at me. It took me going to the head Chaplin (a Priest) to get this guy to back off. Again I got lucky but I know of others who have not been so lucky as me. You would think that we were living in Saudi the way these “Christians’” go around acting. I for one applaud SPC . HALL for his valor in taking a stand when at his rank it is a hard thing to do. It’s been hard for me as a SSgt. At time but the more often non-Christians’ take a stand for our freedoms, we make progress. Keep up the good work! Jay
It wasn't as bad when I was in, subtle harrasment for having NO REL PREF on my dogtags. The occasional fundi asshats who would bug certain people they felt had no business in the military (Mormons, Pagans, agnostics and atheists).
It has CLEARLY gotten out of control, the crusaders are on the march and won't settle for anything other than domination of the government and military.
Gott mit Uns (God with us - German belt buckles during WWI and II).
http://www.claremontmckenna.ed...
http://www.lewrockwell.com/van...
It wasn't as bad when I was in, subtle harrasment for having NO REL PREF on my dogtags. The occasional fundi asshats who would bug certain people they felt had no business in the military (Mormons, Pagans, agnostics and atheists).
It has CLEARLY gotten out of control, the crusaders are on the march and won't settle for anything other than domination of the government and military.
Gott mit Uns (God with us - German belt buckles during WWI and II).
http://www.claremontmckenna.ed...
http://www.lewrockwell.com/van...
It wasn't as bad when I was in, subtle harrasment for having NO REL PREF on my dogtags. The occasional fundi asshats who would bug certain people they felt had no business in the military (Mormons, Pagans, agnostics and atheists).
It has CLEARLY gotten out of control, the crusaders are on the march and won't settle for anything other than domination of the government and military.
Gott mit Uns (God with us - German belt buckles during WWI and II).
http://www.claremontmckenna.ed...
http://www.lewrockwell.com/van...
What? "Good" christians judging others?
I almost laughed out loud about that minor major who threatened to use the UCMJ against this kid. What a sad joke. I hope that guy's CO has seen this article and can use it to show what a fkn nut job he is. Silly crusaders....they'll never outgrow the adult fairy tales from their childhoods. Ephesians 6 warrior...pfffft
Two things:
1)I believe firmly in a seperation of religion and government. God gave us the freedom to choose wether or not to sin. I don't understand why some Christians feel they know better than God and feel He made a mistake in giving us free will. You can not force someone into having a relationship with God! Good behavior does not make you a good Christian.
2)God does still love you.
It wasn't as bad when I was in, subtle harrasment for having NO REL PREF on my dogtags. The occasional fundi asshats who would bug certain people they felt had no business in the military (Mormons, Pagans, agnostics and atheists). It has CLEARLY gotten out of control, the crusaders are on the march and won't settle for anything other than domination of the government and military. Gott mit Uns (God with us - German belt buckles during WWI and II). http://www.claremontmckenna.edu/hist/jpetropoulos/church/tamerpage/buckle.jpg http://www.lewrockwell.com/vance/vance26.html
It wasn't as bad when I was in, subtle harrasment for having NO REL PREF on my dogtags. The occasional fundi asshats who would bug certain people they felt had no business in the military (Mormons, Pagans, agnostics and atheists). It has CLEARLY gotten out of control, the crusaders are on the march and won't settle for anything other than domination of the government and military. Gott mit Uns (God with us - German belt buckles during WWI and II). http://www.claremontmckenna.edu/hist/jpetropoulos/church/tamerpage/buckle.jpg http://www.lewrockwell.com/vance/vance26.html
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