Arguably, the National is the biggest American rock band that most of America has never heard of. The band's latest album, High Violet, debuted at No. 3 on the Billboard album chart earlier this year, it invariably makes every "Best Of" list and, and its music was put into heavy rotation by the 2008 presidential campaign of Barack Obama.
The moody baritone and bleak lyrics of singer Matt Berninger have often earned the National the tag of "sad sacks, making sad music." Maybe that's why they're not on the cover of Tiger Beat, but they seem fine with that anonymity. Berninger; guitarist Bryce Dessner; his twin brother and guitarist, Aaron Dessner; bassist Scott Devendorf; and his brother, drummer Bryan Devendorf, are embarking on another worldwide tour this fall. Bryce Dessner chatted with us in advance of the band's performance in Kansas City on September 29.
I've read that you guys were attempting to make a "poppier" album when you went into the studio for High Violet. Is this the National's version of a Lady Gaga album?
"Poppier" was sort of the buzzword our singer, Matt [Berninger], was using early on in the process. A friend of ours a few years ago infamously challenged us to write a pop song, and there was a batch of songs at the beginning that were maybe a bit sunnier and straightforward, but we kind of lost interest in them real quickly. So we ended up finding our way back into the darkness like we always do. [He laughs.] That said, I do think the record has some tunes that are--by our standards--a little bit catchier. Things like "Anyone's Ghost," "Bloodbuzz Ohio" or "Lemonworld" are, in a way, simpler songs. But no, we certainly didn't approach the heights of Gaga pop stardom.
Do you think you'll ever make a balls-to-the-wall, pop-disco-dance album?
I hope so. It'll shock the world, for sure. We were a bit down that High Violet was greeted with the usual, "gloomy guys get gloomier on new record" [reaction]. It's a typical line applied to us. To some people, our music is very catchy. To people who are fans of more straightforward radio songs, we might seem very dense. It depends on your perspective.
On top of the National, you have various side projects you're juggling. One in particular is the work you and your brother do for the Red Hot Organization. Describe the organization and your collaboration with them.
Red Hot is an AIDS charity based in New York that was founded in the late '80s. They curate music compilations that benefit AIDS charities around the world. What's significant about them is that, typically, compilations are not so great. These are all high quality and highly produced. They don't get B-sides from artists, they actually produce new tracks. We were basically asked to produce a record for Red Hot. My brother and I worked on it for a few years and the result was called Dark Was the Night. It's a big collection of songs, mostly by artists that we love and adore and are friends with from around the world [like David Byrne, the Arcade Fire and Spoon]. It's something we're very proud of and it hangs together very well. It's already raised over $1 million. About $200,000 of that was sent directly to Haiti after the earthquake. It's really meaningful to be involved with something that's actually making a difference in the world. The music business tends to be incredibly narcissistic and ego-driven. Red Hot is both doing good work and making good art. It's really a great organization.
You guys were heavily involved in the 2008 presidential campaign. Do you, as a band, plan to remain involved in politics?
We usually try to stay out of politics. We're from Cincinnati, and Ohio is really a swing state. We all have many family members who vote different than us. So we kind of live that experience of polarized American politics, even within the same family. I have family members I can't even discuss politics with without throwing food at one another.
We've toured a lot in Europe, and especially during the first term of Bush, every interview was an attempt to bait us into a political discussion. We are left-leaning and very progressive in our politics, and there are times when it feels like we can help change something, which is what happened in the 2008 elections. In Ohio we did a bunch of fundraising for Obama. We felt it was incredibly important and much bigger than our music. It was an opportunity to weigh in. Typically, though, the stance of the band is to stay out of it. Politics sometimes figures into our songs, but more as a backdrop to what happens in our daily lives.
Our parents' generation was more about getting on a soapbox. With us, it's less important. I'll go out and canvass for voters and fundraise on my own, but I'm not sure political music is always the best music. We'll pick our battles as a band. If there's something we care about and can contribute in a meaningful way, then yes, we'll help. Having Obama use our songs was something very special.
So I can take that to mean you guys will be out on the picket lines protesting against the "Ground Zero Mosque"?
[He laughs.] No. We all lived in New York during September 11. What was remarkable about New York following the attacks was the openness. It seemed like race, religion and class didn't exist, in a way. There was spontaneous memorial in [Brooklyn]. Tens of thousands of people took to the streets to raise money for the families of firefighters who lost their lives. It was the most beautiful demonstration of humanity I had ever seen. What's happening now seems really sad to me. I can understand why it's controversial to some people, but that's part of what's great about living in this country: you can build a mosque wherever you want. This divisiveness is very sad. I was scared about this stuff happening in 2001, and it's weird that it's happening ten years later.
The National recently did the soundtrack to a documentary called Racing Dreams. Do you think you'll continue to branch out into more such projects?
Yes. Sometimes people think rock bands are like boys clubs, and you're only supposed to do that one thing forever. In actual fact, we're musicians and we really benefit from having different experiences. Sometimes it's really healthy for us to be working on music that isn't for a rock album. My brother and I did a piece for the Opera House in Brooklyn last year called "The Long Count." That piece was seventy minutes long without any interruption. It opens us up to different sounds and techniques.
It sounds like you're conflicted about being in a rock band. Is that something you struggle with?
I think that it's kind of an awkward thing to be in your mid-thirties and travelling around with a bunch of grown dudes in a tour bus. [He laughs.] It's an exceptional, awesome life, but it's pretty weird. We had a photo shoot this morning, where we were crammed into a corner with lights glaring in our faces. There's all sorts of uncomfortable things that go with the really fun parts, like playing shows and making records. I don't think any of us ever dreamed we'd be doing this as long as we have or that we'd have any measure of success. We're always very thankful and aware that there's something pretty dreamlike about doing this in the first place.
And there's always the idea lurking around the corner that show business is a funny thing. The sunlight could go away at any time. We're aware that we've been really fortunate and we're humbled by it. We certainly don't feel entitled.
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