Very quietly, singer Jolie Holland is one of the more respected songwriters working today. She's been around a while; first as a member of folk outfit the Be Good Tanyas, and now as a solo artist. The demos that eventually became her debut, Catalpa, attracted the attention of Tom Waits, who nominated her for the Shortlist prize, and her 2004 album, Escondida, is a touchstone of Americana.
The Pitch: It seems that with each solo album you've released, you've moved further from the folk leanings of the Be Good Tanyas. Is that an intentional shift?
Jolie Holland: Everything I do is intentional, but my intention is not to be less folky, you know? My intentions have nothing to do with the Be Good Tanyas. People talk to me about the Be Good Tanyas, and I barely know those people anymore. I started the band, and then decided it wasn't something I wanted to do -- for business and musical reasons, and social reasons -- a really long time ago. I worked on all their records, but I have never listened to a Be Good Tanyas record. Never even listened to one.
Is there a reason for that?
Because it was so socially awful to work with that band? But, there's nothing I can get listening to that music except a stomachache. But, no, I'm not intentionally creating distance between myself and the Tanyas. I don't even remember if there was any commonality. I'm interested in some North American-based, European-based folk music like some people, but I don't even know what they're doing.
Let's talk about you new album, then -- that being the reason you're on tour, and coming to Kansas City. What made the process of recording Pint of Blood different from The Living and the Dead? You had a lot of collaborators on your last album.
Well, you know, not really. I wrote all the music on Pint of Blood. There were guest producers -- or, really, one producer, Mr. M. Ward -- and he worked on a couple songs, but it was all my material, and I co-produced it with many of the guest producers, but Shahzad Ismaily and I were the main production team.
The direction for me is always more live and more ensemble playing. Escondido was made in four and a half days, and it was all very live, and then Springtime was made in two weeks, and it was all very live. Like, almost everything was live ensemble, but it wasn't exactly rock, you know? Like, there was a really light drummer -- Dave Mihaly was playing on that. He's a jazz drummer. He's not interested in playing different material. Or, he's not interested in playing rock. He had the opportunity the first time around to play rock. He's part of that generation, and he didn't want to. He wasn't interested.
So, in order to perform and record the types of songs I started writing, I had to start working with different people. So, I started working with Rachel Blumberg and that was a total dream. It was so great to work with her as a drummer. And then, this last record was me working with a band that I was even more intimate with. Because, Rachel and I just met each other in the studio. This is me working with my rock band. Just Shahzad and Grey Gersten.
The Living and the Dead was recorded in different locales, but I know Pint of Blood was recorded in your home studio.
That's not true. For some reason, that so-called fact has been getting around. No, we recorded in some studios in New York, and some of them were tantamount to home studios, but they were studios.
They were studios that were in people's homes?
No, they were in a basement in the Lower East Side, but it was the equivalent of some New Yorker's home studio, but it's top-of-the-line equipment. Some of it -- there were a few things that were done in either my home or Shahzad's home. We did the tracks to "Tender Mirror" in my house, because my piano was in really good shape, and then we did "The Devil's Sake" in Shahzad's house. But, the equipment we were using was nicer than in most professional studios around the country. We were using really nice stuff. It wasn't like most people's home studios.
To go back to the collaboration question I had earlier -- you've done work on a lot of other people's albums, and I'm curious as to how that allows you to express yourself as an artist.
I love being a side man. I started out in scenes where I was playing backup in all my friends' bands, and they were playing backup in my band, and that is still the case, to a large degree. But, it happens less and less, as my job fronting my band has gotten more busy. But, I love playing backup with people. I love being in a great songwriter's band.
Does it allow you to move into genres you might not be comfortable tackling on one of your own albums?
I'm pretty fearless with whatever so-called genre I feel like I need to take a song to, so no. I'm just serving the songwriter's vision, and of course, you learn a lot anytime you're in a great bandleader's band.
What sort of things have you taken away? What sort of things have you learned?
I didn't go to music school, so I've kind of learned everything from being in other people's bands. I feel like just simple enthusiasm is sort of the only way that people learn things. Like, I was totally unaware of what my voice sounded like, even, until Dave Mihaly picked at me to sing. And, I wasn't even aware of what my violin playing sounded like 'til I played with other people. So much music only has context in playing with other people.
Does playing with other people allow you to hear what you're doing with another set of ears?
I would say, strictly, to the answer of your question, is no. The thing about playing music, period -- and it's especially the thing about playing with other songwriters -- if you learn the value of not thinking, you learn the value of just being able to respond without mentality. And, that's almost impossible to describe, but it's so exciting. And, I always find that to be true: the less that you're thinking as a player, the more perceptive you are.
As a songwriter, are you thinking of it as you go along, or do you just go with it, and come back to it and analyze it afterward?
I write in my head. I don't write with an instrument. I don't really understand the construct that you're coming out of with your question, because it just seems it's a lot more complicated than my experience.
That's different than the way it works for most musicians with whom I've spoken, where a melody is picked out on a guitar. What's the process like, coming up with something strictly in your head, rather than at an instrument?
Sometimes, it's just like I hear the song in my head, and then I just go get it down on paper or sing it or something. Sometimes, it's just that complete, and other times, I'm trying to refer to a feeling or an idea, and try to depict a feeling, musically.
It's fascinating -- these songs springing fully-formed, rather than this being a piecemeal process.
Yeah, I find that's such a true way -- if you start with the idea, first, and then let the idea teach you how the song is supposed to go, you're not stuck to your own limitations as a musician. You can imagine it first, completely independent of your limitations.
So, rather than tackle it based on chord progressions or instrumentation available to you at the time, you compose the entire instrumentation in your head?
The feeling is more like it, and then you look at what the capabilities are. You say, "Oh, I've got these musicians. How can I use these musicians to accomplish what's necessary for the song?"
When you say "feeling," is that a sonic feeling, emotional feeling, or some combination thereof?
The music is just a tool of the feeling. The music is just some big arrows that point in the direction of the feeling. The song doesn't necessarily evoke. Evocation is none of my business. Something is going to happen in every listener that has nothing to do with me. All I can do is point in the direction of my experience and have the music try and tell my experience. And, it seems to me, the more expressly I'm able to do that, the more capable the music is of being useful for anyone else, in terms of being able to take them somewhere, or them being able to be inspired by their own experience through the music. Basically, so that it's useful.
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this article reminds me of the last time I saw Jolie play a show. she played as if she didn't want to be there and didn't care that the audience could clearly see that. she and her band hand been in our cafe before the show and were really rude. great talent, rare voice but lacking in some really key areas...
Goof lord Jolie. Someone could use therapy. And filters. And class. It is a feckless move to infuriate BGT fans and then keep going when called on your BS. Defensiveness is very unappealing and reeks of a guilty conscious, you are clearly too self involved to see how poorly you are looking here.
I'm not sure if she's as insufferable as she sounds, but this interview certainly put me off listening to her music.
It's not about 'nicey-ness', Jolie, it's about professionalism. Your comments in this interview are damaging - but only to yourself.
Jolie, I think you could do with reading Dale Carnegie's classic book, "How to Win Friends and Influence People". You might pick up some tips to help you with your manners, your grace, your humility, your professionalism, and your relationships!
You don't know the details. You have no idea what happened. And putting up a front of nicey-ness is damaging to women, and to everyone.
I am shocked at the lack of sisterhood presented here. As we get older and see our illusions shattered daily, this really shouldn't be a surprise, but I had always thought the alt-country crowd was supportive and nurturing towards one another. Guess it's just as corrupt as most other industries, or at least a few bad apples in the lot. I had wanted to buy this album, but now feel sick and would just as soon listen to Blue Horse again and try to pretend I never heard these petty, unappreciative remarks.
Jolie here. If the Tanyas hadn't created an abusive working environment, I wouldn't get a stomach ache from hearing them. Most musicians don't listen to the records they work on, not very much, that is.
Hahaha. Is someone a little bitter and delusional? Narcissism in its most pure and potent form. Um, Jolie, you ain't that far from the Tanyas if you still need to feature Sam Parton, and the Tanyas first big hit on your album.
Let it go honey, you left an amazing band and you regret it. We get it.
After making us suffer through the most unpopular opening act I've ever observed (Kyp Malone), and now this, it seems like Jolie just simply doesn't get it
Well, if she's "not intentionally creating distance" between herself and the Be Good Tanyas, then she's not very self-aware, is she? I mean, she is doing exactly that through her awkward, ungracious, and impulsive response to the question. This interview reads like the ramblings of someone who exists in their own little self-important bubble. God she's rude.
I agree with all the other commenters here. I love Jolie Holland's work, but I have read many interviews with her where she comes off as rude, snobbish, and condescending. I have seen her live 3 times, and she had a shitty attitude towards the audience. I also thought Sam of the Be Good Tanyas was still one of her best friends? She really comes off as an insecure mess.
Wow, I am floored. The Be Good Tanya musicians have always honored Jolie Holland. She seems petty, jealous and mean spirited. She has never listened to any of their albums? Gawd, how disrespectful and rude she is. The Be Good Tanyas creates incredible music. I am saddened that she has down such blatant disregard and vengefulness in such a public forum. Yuck!
It's a shame to see someone display such lack of class by disrespecting their colleagues, and those who helped them achieve success. Jolie's comments not only speak negatively to her character, but to some very talented artists, to fans of The Be Good Tanyas, and to all others who have supported her recording career to date. How do you launch a new LP and trash it at the same time? Shameful. Those comments can only hurt her career, and certainly do not show her in a good light.
Wow - that was unpleasant - she certainly comes across as very judgmental of all of the musicians she has worked with - not just the Be Good Tanyas - frienemy much?
"...singer Jolie Holland is one of the more respected songwriters working today..." - not for long, with that kind of attitude. She's just lost mine, that's for certain.
I agree. To feel that way is one thing, but to say it publicly seems nasty and petty. They were and still are -- they're touring this summer -- a wonderful band beloved by many. Holland comes across as mean and unpleasant -- they're better off without her; I am sure they didn't think she was any fun to work with, either.
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